Jim Santos is a freelance writer and voice over artist, currently roaming the world with his wife, Rita. He has written and published over 200 articles about living in Ecuador and travel to other locations around the world for the Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post, and various International Living magazines, e-newsletters, and web site content.
In addition to the “Living Abroad: Challenging the Myths of Expat Life”, “Hiking the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu” and “The Galápagos Islands:On Your Own and On a Budget” he is also the author of “Ecuador Scouting Trip Itineraries and Travel Guide: An International Living Report. He has been a popular speaker on various aspects of life in Ecuador at six expat conferences held in Ecuador and the USA. Several of his titles are also available as audiobooks.
He has recorded audiobooks for other authors as well, produced voiceover for ads and video, is the host of the “International Living Podcast” for International Living, currently ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts with over 300,000 downloads. He is also the host of his own podcast series “Travels With Jim and Rita”. Jim and Rita plan to continue to indulge in their love of travel and look forward to spending 2-3 months each exploring as many countries as they can, stopping back in the States a few times a year to visit family (four children and nine grandchildren between them) and friends
The Social Digest: Can you share with us some of the most memorable travel experiences you’ve had during your time living abroad in Ecuador and exploring other countries in South America?
By far the most memorable experience of all was hiking the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu. I wrote about the hike itself in a rather appropriately titled book, “Hiking the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu”. But the year we spent prepping and training for the hike was really a reward in itself. We took advantage of living in Ecuador to do some practice high altitude hikes in the Andes, and this took us to small villages in the interior of Ecuador.
It was fascinating and wonderful to meet the locals in these regions, mostly Quechan farmers. I remember on one hike near the small village of Chugchilán, we were at about 12,000 feet walking among beautiful (but steep) farmland when we came upon a Quechan woman walking with her small child. She had another child strapped to her front, and a load of sticks on her back. We stopped to say hello, all of us using broken Spanish as she spoke mostly Quechua. She was excited to hear we lived in Salinas by the ocean, as she had never been out of her village before. We spoke briefly, one child hiding shyly behind her, and wished each other well and went on our way.
Afterward, I realized how odd it must have looked for her. Here she is on the mountain she walks everyday carrying two loads and wearing sandals. My wife and I are decked out in hiking boots, backpacks, sun-screen hats, carrying hiking poles, and sipping water through tubes hanging over our shoulders. We must have looked like astronauts!
The Social Digest: Your recent book, “Living Abroad: Challenging the Myths of Expat Life,” offers a candid and humorous look at the challenges and rewards of living as an expatriate. What inspired you to write this book, and what do you hope readers will take away from it?
Living in Ecuador and being a writer for International Living and some other travel-related publications, I ran into a lot of expats. I also spoke at several IL conferences where I met those considering the move to another country. Through these conversations with expats and expat wanna-bes, it became obvious that there was a lot of misinformation and outright myths about what it was like to be an expat.
On the other side, there were also a lot of people painting too rosy a picture of the lifestyle. So my inspiration and goal was to take our experiences and our information collected from others to give a more accurate real-life look at what it means to be an expat. The truth is, it is not for everyone, and many people make their decisions based on some false assumptions. I wanted to say here, this is what was really like for us and others, now you decide if this is going to work for you or not.
The Social Digest: As someone who has lived abroad for several years, what advice would you give to individuals considering a move to a new country, especially in light of the global pandemic and political tensions?
I had a chapter in my book devoted to this question, and with the current US political scene, I just brought it up again in our podcast “Travels With Jim and Rita”. Basically, if your main reason for leaving your country is to get away from something, including politics, then my advice is simple. Don’t do it. The most successful expats and slow travellers are the ones who are not running away from something. They are running towards new experiences, new cultures, and a new life.
We’ve met expats in Ecuador for example who left the US mostly because there was a black President. Those who have left for political or economic reasons alone tend to cluster together, never really acclimating to the new culture, and become very bitter about what they perceive as everything that is wrong with the world. It is a lonely and sad way to live, and they are missing out on what a wonderful experience living in another culture and finding new ways to enjoy life can be.
You should only move to another country or embark on slow travel like my wife and I are doing now if you are looking forward, not back. Of course, that said, this particular year we are not sorry at all that will be dog-sitting for a couple in the London suburbs when the US election rolls around!
The Social Digest: Your writing often incorporates elements of humor and personal anecdotes. How do you balance storytelling with providing practical advice and insights for aspiring expatriates?
For one thing, I think you remember something better if it made you smile a little. So giving advice with a touch of humour can take the sting out of sometimes hard facts. And as an expat, one thing you have to learn quickly is to not take things too personally and take a light-hearted approach to life. For example, the bureaucracy in foreign countries can be mind-numbingly slow sometimes, with rules that don’t make a lot of sense, and requiring multiple trips to an office or offices to get things resolved. We found this to be true in Ecuador, but rather than getting upset about it, we rolled with it, and developed what I called “The Rule of Three”
Basically, this means that whatever you need to do – start electrical service, change a billing address, open a bank account – it is going to take three visits:
Visit 1: This is not the correct office, you need to go to the one downtown, or you have the wrong form.
Visit 2: Either the person who handles this is not in today, the computer is down, or this is only done on certain days of the week.
Visit 3: Your request is grudgingly fulfilled.
This way if we accomplished something on the second visit, or miraculously on the first, we felt great about it! A corollary of the Rule involves how many copies of your ID card you need. I called it “The Reverse Reciprocity Theory”. In other words, the number of copies you need depends on the number you brought with you. If you brought none, you need three. If you brought three, none are required. Honestly, sometimes the choice is to either rant, rave, and cry or just laugh. I find it healthier and more fun to laugh.
The Social Digest: In addition to your book, you also host the “International Living Podcast” and your own podcast series, “Travels With Jim and Rita.” How do you approach podcasting compared to writing, and what topics do you enjoy exploring through this medium?
That’s an interesting question, because I’ve found the mediums are quite different. When I’m writing an article or a book, I’m the one presenting all of the information, and the focus is on clarity and completeness. However, with a podcast, I’m the enabler and the listener instead. It is my job to let my guest do the explaining, and interject just enough to steer the conversation. A fan I met at an IL conference paid me the compliment, “I like that you let the other person talk!” Typically to prepare for a show with a guest(s), I spend an hour or two researching the topic and any side issues, and I’ll make a rough list of some of the things I want to bring up in the show. But mostly, I start thing off and see where it goes.
The big difference between writing and hosting a podcast is in the editing. When I write, the editing is an important part of the finished product, but it is mostly tweaking. With the podcast, editing is an underappreciated skill. Removing pauses, ums, ers, false starts, and other extraneous parts of the recorded interview has a big impact on how the finished product sounds and flows.
The Social Digest: You’ve been a popular speaker at expat conferences, sharing your insights and experiences with audiences. What are some common misconceptions or myths about living abroad that you’ve encountered, and how do you address them in your presentations?
I addressed a lot of these in my book “Living Abroad: Challenging the Myths of Expat Life”, but there are a few that come up often. One of those is the idea that “anyone can do it”. Some conference goers have been surprised when after speaking to them a while and listening to stories, I tell them I don’t think the expat life is right for you. It takes a certain amount of mental and spiritual flexibility to live abroad. You have to be able to accept some things that you will not be able to change, and instead change for the new situation yourself.
For example, as I write this, we are in San Miguel de Allende in the Mexico highlands. We happened to hit a record heat wave, with temperatures in the day nine and ten degrees above normal. Hardly any homes have air conditioning in what is normally a moderate climate, so we are making do with fans and open windows that still leaves it pretty warm in our AirBnB. But instead of focusing on that and being miserable, we got out early and hit the fresh fruit and veggie market, and we will go out again this evening as things cool off.
Another misconception is you can live very cheaply overseas. While it is true that there are many places in the world where you can live on say $1500/month or less, a lot depends on how you want to live. Expats who insist on shopping at the larger chain grocery stores for American products they are familiar with, are sometimes surprised and angry to find that they are paying more for groceries than they did in the States. If you shop like the locals and use local products, you’ll not only save money but you may find yourself healthier and happier. I’ve often told potential expats that if their ONLY reason for moving overseas is to save money, then don’t do it. Find the cheapest place to live in your own country, and clip coupons instead.
The Social Digest: With your plans for a “roving retirement” lifestyle, exploring different countries for 2-3 months at a time, what destinations are at the top of your list, and what do you hope to discover during your travels?
Oh, so many choices! We are in Mexico now, and after a quick trip back to the US to visit family while the kids are out of school for the summer, we will probably visit Colombia, Costa Rica, and possibly Belize. We need to be in Las Vegas Nevada at the end of October for an International Living conference where I’ll be giving a couple of talks, and we leave from there on a direct flight to London, England. We have a granddaughter who is spending her senior year in Denmark, so we will hang in the British Isles until we can visit her.
After that, who knows? Croatia, Montenegro, and Albania are high on our list, as well as Spain, Portugal, Italy, France and Malta. We will probably travel around Europe for at least 6-8 months. Our biggest challenge will be keeping track of our time in Schengen Zones.
As for what we hope to discover, well, nothing concrete really. We just want to immerse ourselves in the local life and culture, and absorb as much as we can. We are looking forward to discovering and appreciating the differences and similarities in people around the world. We love seeing things like the Acropolis in Greece, the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, the Opera House in Vienna – but ultimately the things that stick with us most are the people we meet.
The Social Digest: Looking ahead, what are your hopes and aspirations for the future, both personally and professionally, as you continue to explore new places and share your experiences with others through your writing and podcasts?
My wife and I just want to see and experience as much of the world as we can while we are still healthy enough to travel. I am 66, my wife 73, and we both lost our first spouses to cancer. So we understand that there are no guarantees in life, especially when it comes to your health and how much time you have on this planet. We want to spend as much time as we can exploring.
Although I do earn some money from writing articles and from my books, it is not something I’ll ever get rich doing. My goal with writing and our podcast is just to share our experiences, and hopefully encourage others to get out and do some exploring of their own. I firmly believe the world would be a much better place if more people left their comfort zone, and got out to see how people in other countries live. Like us, they may be surprised to find that people around the world, despite the differences in cultures, are mostly the same. They want what is best for their families, they want to live and work in peace, and they want to enjoy and celebrate their lives.
This interview was conducted by The Social Digest on 06/05/2024. If you have any interview recommendations or have a story that you want to share with our readers, write us at editor@thesocialdigest.com
